RSSA War of Words Continues: Floyd Mayweather Jr vs Dana White
It’s looks like this war of words is going to continue between WBC Welterweight Champion Floyd Mayweather Jr and UFC President Dana White…
Earlier this month they exchanged some verbal blows where Mayweather bashed on Chuck Liddell, stated he would give Liddell a million dollars if he beat a heavyweight boxer from his promotion, and said that the UFC “ain’t shit”. White came back with a challenge of having one of Mayweather Promotions’ heavyweights fight Liddell under MMA rules. White also said that he would give Mayweather a million bucks out of his own pockets if he would be able to sell more than 10 tickets without Oscar De La Hoya.
Ouch…
Mayweather was asked about the UFC once again during an open workout this past Tuesday and once again he didn’t shy away from giving his thoughts on the subject:
“UFC’s champions can’t handle boxing. That’s why they are in UFC.” Mayweather said. “Put one of our guys in UFC and he’d be the champion. Any good fighter, he’d straight knock them out. Take Chuck Liddell. Put him in the ring with a (boxer) who is just 10-0 and Chuck Liddell would get punished. They wouldn’t have a chance to grapple (us) because we’d knock them out.”
White was given the opportunity to fire back at a press conference on Wednesday and he certainly delivered:
“Boxers couldn’t become mixed martial artists. That’s why they’re boxers,” White. “They are one trick ponies. Our guys can do everything. They can box, they can kick box, they can wrestle and do jiu-jitsu. They are much better athletes than boxers.
I used to talk like Floyd Mayweather when I was involved in boxing,” White said. “I talked just like him, until I educated myself about this sport. These guys are amazing athletes, Floyd Mayweather is one of the best boxers ever, (and) Sean Sherk will whoop his ass in under two minutes.
Any day that Mayweather wants to put his money and his ass where his mouth is, I’m ready,” White continued. “If he wants to step up, let’s do it.”
Mayweather caught wind of White’s comments about Sherk and responded…
“I’ll beat him and come home and watch basketball. Why would I go into a sport paying hundreds of thousands when I’m in a sport paying $20 million?” Mayweather said.
Does Mayweather have a point? Comparing the money that boxers are making and what the top fighters in the UFC are bringing in, why should Mayweather settle for something that is much less at the moment?
White says however that he can offer Mayweather the type of money he would be interested in…
“I’m willing to put together a fight for Sean Sherk and Floyd Mayweather with numbers that would make sense for Floyd,” White said. “And I guarantee you he would not accept it. Floyd Mayweather would never fight in the UFC because he would get his head ripped off.”
Cross-posted on our sister site - MMA on Tap
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Sean Sherk would beat the living turd out of Mayweather, it wouldn’t even be close. Hell, the worse lightweight in the UFC would eat his breakfast.
You can’t stop a shot from a mini bull-moose with a jab, somebody should invite him to a gym for some MMA sparring. Someone needs to wake him up, before he gets humiliated infront of millions.
Posted by inf0tr8r on Apr 19, 2007 at 02:20 PMYeah PBF would be so much smaller then Sherk it would be rediculous. Sherk will probably take him down and rip off his limbs.
Posted by a.white on Apr 20, 2007 at 12:38 AMMayweather doesn’t have a point because he is saying one sport cannot compare to another, then when challenged to compete in the “inferior sport” he says its not worth the money.
So why even fucking say anything to begin with?
Oh yeah you’re a douche bag boxing icon who’s witnessing the decline of his own pyramid of wealth.
Just trying to get a rise out of MMA fans so they will want to see him get beat up by De La Hoya, the best thing MMA fans can do is completely ignore the event.
Posted by DirtyML on Apr 20, 2007 at 09:10 AMHere’s how I see it. Lidell ‘might’ get knocked out in a boxing match and Mayweather ‘would’ get knocked out in an MMA match. Lidell would be going in with a boxing skill set that he already has vs someone who has dedicated their life to the one skill. 3-1 advantage to the boxer.
Mayweather comes in with polished boxing and little to nothing else. Maybe someone told him it’s a good idea to sprawl if someone tries to take him down. 10-1 advantage to MMA.
MMA has proven time and time again that a limited skill set only gets you so far in this sport. Example, Royce Gracie tapped everyone in the early UFCs. Enter the GnP specialist/wrestler and BJJ is not as dominate.
The point is there’s a constant evolution in this sport thats absent in boxing and the fans, tv networks, fighters and promoters are evolving their interests as well. The big money is shifting and so will the fighters.
Hey Floyd I’d hit up the sherdog forums and try to find a good MMA school in your area.
Posted by sankakugatame on Apr 20, 2007 at 10:20 AMhaha floyd, talking trash about mma yet he’s fighting a washed up de la hoya!! LOL… yeah boxing is looking good right now, kind of like a 300lb chick at closing time!!
if he fought sherk, omg…....... would be sicking to watch sherk pull his limbs off one at a time!!! LMAO
Posted by Craig O on Apr 20, 2007 at 11:42 AMThere’s no way that Mayweather will take this fight in my opinion. He already knows that if he steps in there with Sherk, he’s going to get hurt. At least I hope that his ego will let him think that way.
The size difference would be dramatic. The De La Hoya fight is the first time in his career that Mayweather will fight close to 155 lbs. Sean Sherk reportedly used to have to cut weight to make 170 so imagine the jump he’s taking these days. Even with all of that water weight lost, Sherk is still a much bigger fighter than Mayweather.
Posted by John Chandler on Apr 20, 2007 at 12:10 PMyeah i forget how small mayweather is, but isn’t it the smallest dog’s that bark the most.
I agree also that there’s no way Mayweather could take this fight or anyother fight in mma style, just no way. All he would have to do is spare with a d level mma fighter and he would realize bad he would get hurt if fought an A fighter.
Posted by Craig O on Apr 20, 2007 at 01:54 PMWHAT!!!!!Boxing more intense than MMF. you have got to be kidding me. Mayweather would not have a chance in an UFC ring, how long does it take for a boxer to get knocked out…...too long. Mayweather if you walk into a UFC ring i give you 00:01:30 before you forget how the hell you got there in the first place. There is a BIG BIG difference with UFC and boxing…UFC would eat you guys up and then spit you out. Come on now BE FOR REAL
Posted by Tasha V on Apr 22, 2007 at 11:43 PMMayw couldn’t stop a takedown ground in pound in under a minute. Imagine Mayw trying to tap or trying to figure out what a guard is. Put him against even low level UFC and he’s cooked!
Posted by Richard Dailey on May 05, 2007 at 03:27 PMSherk would stop maywhter plain and simple. Sure he is a great boxing, but sean sherk has been taking down good strikers for years. The guy is a animal. Maywhtr would not have those chances to beathe like he does in boxing, sean would run a critic on him, floyd would never get the chance to breathe. If they fought tomorrow, sherk by GROUND AND POUND TKO
Posted by Hollywood de Boer on May 10, 2007 at 12:21 AMWhat is with the Mayweather bashing? UFC is not boxing, MAyweather knows this, he is just running his mouth. If Dana White really thinks UFC fighters can “do it all”, then he should pay Floyd to fight a 147 lb UFC fighter in a BOXING match. If the UFC fighter really could ‘do it all’, then he would have no problems, right? Wrong. Especially in standup fighting, UFC fighters dont train to beo exceptional in very dsipline of their fighting, they just train to be ‘pretty good’ in each area. Well lets face it, UFC fighters are terrible boxers, they have NO skills. MAny of them can barely even throw a punch. nd why does it take longer or boxers t oget knocked out? Because they can take more punishment, they have better defense. UFC fighters, compared to Floyd, are like AMATEUR boxers.
Posted by Sam Tay on May 16, 2007 at 07:26 PMMMA is a relatively young sport. The best fighters in MMA, are not as skilled as the best boxers, or even the best thai boxers (or any kind of kickboxing). I’m not bashing MMA, this is just obviously true. MMA fighting is still very immature in terms of how complicated skillful it is. The standup fighting especially, is very poor. Most of those guys are just unskilled brawlers. They don’t throw punches well, they don’t throw combinations, they barely throw leg kicks, they have poor footwork, dont know how to move around the ring (things like lateral movement), they have no defense with their gloves, they have no head movement. Fighting is like a chess match, you make a move and your opponent responds, or he moves and you respond, your goal being to predict what your opponent will do to counter him, or be effective in your attack and defense. Also UFC fighters NEVER throw body shots! Standup fighters get taken out so quickly by grapplers because the standup fighters are SHIT. They are praised for being kickboxing champions before joining UFC, but these credentials are often very dubious. They turn out to have only just had one small regional title that doesnt mean shit, or they end up having some impressive looking title, but a record of 8-29. Or they’re praised as having all of these impresive sounding records in other sports, but you look them up and they’ve got terrible records - the commentators just make these convenient little mistakes. And finally, so many MMA fighters are OVER THE HILL. Well into their 30s and their 40s, after their body is already starting to slow down. This is proof that MMA isnt as developed as boxing, if youth doesnt have any advantages, then its because theres a lot of randomness in the sport!
Posted by Sam Taylor on May 16, 2007 at 07:38 PMSam you speak of such vauge things, where’s your names of the 8-29 people? here’s a great quote from your brillant post: “They are praised for being kickboxing champions before joining UFC, but these credentials are often very dubious. They turn out to have only just had one small regional title that doesnt mean shit, or they end up having some impressive looking title, but a record of 8-29.”
who are these people??? name 1 name much less the mass of fighters???
2nd point: your last point that cuz older mma fighters win it’s less skilled, wtf? it’s due to practice, being the best and well not dancing. but hey if you like somebody who can OUT DANCE HIS OPPONENT AFTER TALKING TRASH THAT HE WAS GONNA KILL HIM AND HE’S A FEMALE PART(de la hoya), then TO RUN LIKE SKILLED SCARDY CAT… well that SPEAKS VOLUMES of the STATE OF BOXING.
I WATCHED WHEN REAL MEN FOUGHT ALI, FRAZIER, HAGLAR, HEARNS, ECT….so don’t say i know nothing of boxing, i’m a versed fan.
My POINT: you have to be way more, a ton more, skilled to surrive in mma. no you won’t be as fluid on your feet as a boxer, but that is only ONE ASPECT OF THE SPORT. YOU SAY BOXING IS LIKE CHESS, I LAUGH, TRY CHECKERS.also, way to stay up on current affairs!!
Posted by Craig O on May 16, 2007 at 09:36 PManother point; we didn’t start bashing floyd “dancing with the stars” mayweather, he started it.. and long after this post and others he backed down….. he backed down.
Posted by Craig O on May 16, 2007 at 09:38 PMhow long has BJJ been around Sam?? i would wager my house that more mma fighter could beat boxers in the ring than boxers could do in octagon. you could 50 mma and 50 boxers. MMA fighter would loose maybe 3 MMA fights at worst. and would win at least 10 boxing matches, at least.
point being, “how many ounces are those padded things they strap on’? mma fighter would feel like he’s getting tickled lol okay that’s stupid… but funny(ish),,, okay it’s not even funny… but makes my point.
Posted by Craig O on May 16, 2007 at 09:43 PMAnd in response to the other things you said:
I don’t need to name a whole list of fighters, that sridiculous. I am telling you what everyone knows if they actually read up on these MMA fighters. I watch fights on UFC, PRIDE, and other promotions, and when commentators say things like that, I look up the records of the fighters. MMA fighters tend to not know as much as they think or say they know, this is TRUE. I’m not insulting your sport, I happen to like it - so why get so defensive? Its just true man. Hell you always see MMA guys saying they’re hardcore into muay thai or something lie that, but when you watch them fight - they have TERRIBLE thai boxing technique. Its more common in MMA, because MMA fighters don’t have to have the background that professional boxers have to, to get in the sport. Pro. boxers have to have a long stellar amateur career (which is WELL documented!!), before they could even HOPE to get pro fights with anyone but bums. I’m not saying one sport is better, just that boxing is further along - and therefore its foolish to assume that ina BOXING match, MMA fighters have ANY advantage over boxers because this is NOT true.
and hell you talk about a boxers punches feeling like tickles.. well I’ve already explained why this isn’t true. But on top of that, boxers can TAKE more punishment than MMA fighters. How is this? Its because boxers FIGHT MORE. Boxers spar constantly, and even before they fight as pros (during which they often fight 12 rounds, getting hit with hundreds of punches every fight sometimes!), most top boxers have an amateur career of SEVERAL HUNDRED fights. If you look at most MMA fights, even in fights where the guys stand up only and never go to the ground, they don’t throw many punches, and guys rarely take much punishment before going down (if they go down). This is not because MMA fighters hit harder, or their punches are hader because of the gloves - that makes no sense—
And to criticise Mayweather for fighting in a DEFENSIVE style is stupid man. Are you saying that its only real boxing if he ONLY fights toe to toe, squared off with Oscar? Thats terrible man. Not everyone can fight in that style.
Tell me right now, what is wrong with having a DEFENSE? Using your footwork, slipping punches, using a shoulder roll, this is all elements of defense. So is blocking and parrying punches.
You talk about Ali - Ali’s BEST SKILL was his footwork. Thats what he was known for, his footwork. He danced around opponents until they tired and were confused by his style, then attacked.Frazier - Frazier constantly moved his upper body (head movement),, this made it harder for him to be timed and hit with punches like jabs and straight rights (part of why he knocked out Ali the first time).
If you criticise Floyd for using his footwork to help him beat Oscar, but then say you watch real men like Ali - then you’re god damn right you know nothing about boxing. And the only reason why Ali stopped using his footwork later in his career.. is that he got OLD! He couldn’t use his footwork anymore, because it tired him out too qu ickly ,as he was out of shape. So he brawled, took shots - and got brain damaged for it. Theres nothing ‘great’ about that.
And my first response (I emailed it originally):
You don’t really know what you’re talking about. BJJ has been around for a little while, but you have to consider, that BJJ is COMPLETELY useless ina boxing match ,whereas boxing skills are of some use in MMA. Its hard to know how much more advanced the best boxers are in terms of skill than the best MMA fighters, but if you have been in the ring yourself, you would recognize these skills.
Boxing gloves are between 8 and 10 ounces. You do not unerstand what they point of them is. They are to protect against cuts, hand + wrist injuries, and they only soften blows to the point that the brain doesnt get hurled around in the skull (the same as 4 ounce MMA gloveS). The reason why MMA gloves weight half as much as boxing gloves, is that boxing gloves include wrist support, and they cover more area than MMA gloves. MMA fighters have to have their fingers and thumbs free. Most MMA fightrrs have very poor punching techniques. You think a punch from a boxer like Lennox Lewis feels like a tickle? You aren’t a fighter, so I wouldnt’ even bother asking you, but I wil ltell you that a punch from a boxing glove and a punch from a MMA feel NO different. The padding does not take away any FORCE whatsoever.
In fact, MMA gloves may have MORE padding around the knuckles (where ontact is made with punches) than boxing gloves do. For example, Floyd often uses gloves by a Japanese company called Winning. Winning gloves has less padding than traditional boxing gloves around the knuckles, but more around the wrist - because Floyd has had hand troubles in the past. Cleto Reyes gloves also have much less pading around the knuckles than say.. Everlast.
And let me make it clear, I’m not bashing MMA - I love thai boxing, wrestling, and MMA itself. But I seem to know more about boxing than some people leaving comments here, so I feel like its my duty to defend my sport ,because some MMA fans (not all of course), are VERY ignorant about the differences between UFC and western boxing.
Posted by Sam Taylor on May 16, 2007 at 10:07 PMAnd ALL combat sports are like chess,, if you don’t understand what I mean by this, then yo have never fought in your life. What I mean by that it is like chess, is the mental game that goes on between fightes. Counters, feints, anticipating what your opponent will do when you throw your jab so you can follow it with a right hand, or waiting for your opponent to throw that jab from a crouch so you can come over the top with a right hand.
I am NOT BASHING MMA. But there is no way you can say that MMA is as developed a sport as boxing. MMA has only been around for a few years really. MMA is NOT Just a combination of many martial arts, its not that simple. You can’t just train to be a kickboxer, in BJJ, and then expect to win in MMA. MMA is its own sport now, and you have to train in all aaspects from the beginning to truly be skilled at it (which is why the next couple of generations of MMA fighters are going to be a lot more interesting to watch than the guys fighting right now). But this has only been going on for a few years, whereas boxing has been developing, people building on the skills their trainers learned when they were kids… for HUNREDS of years.
Posted by Sam Taylor on May 16, 2007 at 10:12 PMAnd don’t give me this “state of boxing” shit either. The state of boxing is GREAT. There are more incredibly talented fighters around right now than ever before. Sure, theres no Mike Tyson running around EMBARRASSING the sport. REgular people on the street may not be interested in boxing (because MMA is more of a spectacle, and non boxing fans associate boxing ONLY with heavyweights, and the last legit champ retired).
Because boxing is so in the public eye, you can’t judge its ‘state’ just on ticket sales. When Larry Holmes became the undisputed champ (and continued to be so for so many years), people said that boxing was dying. But Larry Holmes was a great fighter, as great as Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Kenny Norton, but he just wasn’t popular. The late 70s and 80s had fighters like Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns,, Marvelous Marvin Hagler, Wilfredo Benitez, Aaron Pryor, Alexis Arguello, Roberto Duran, etc etc. Well we may not have a heavyweight champ that anyone care about since Lennox retired, but we’ve got TONS of talent at the lower weight classes. Floyd, Sugar Shane Mosley, Manny Pacquiao, Rafael Marques, Juan Manuel Marquez, Winky Wright, Jermain Taylor, Bernard Hopkins, Marco Antonio Barrera, Miguel Cotto, Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, Israel Vasquez, Jorge Arce, Rocky Juarez, Erik Morales, Joel Casamayor, Juan Diaz, Jose Luis Castillo, Ricky Hatton (though he’s overrated by the Brits of course!
), Vivian Harris, Paul Williams, Luis Collazo, Kermit Cintron, Zab Judah, Antonio Margarito, Edison Miranda, Arthur Abraham, Kelly Pavlik, Mikkel Kessler, Allan Green, Jeff Lacy (if he recovers from his injuries), Joe Calzaghe, O’Neil Bell - and I could keep going on and going on. But I won’t, I’m sure I’ll get enough shit for being a boxing (and MMA) fan on an MMA website in the morning anyway!
Posted by Sam Taylor on May 16, 2007 at 10:23 PMFLOYD HAS NO POWER PERIOD. YOU SAY GARAGE AND BACK IT WITH GARAGE, YES GARBAGE. YOU SAY ALOT WITHOUT SAYING ......... A DAMN THING.
ALI… HE HAD POWER, FRAZIER WOULD KNOCK YOUR HEAD OFF. YES THEY HAD SKILL, FOOTWORK ECT. BUT THEY COULD THROW. FLOYD IS A WHIMP AND PUSSY SAYING ALL THAT TRASH AND NOT BACKING IT UP, THEN HE BACKS DOWN FROM HIS COMMENTS AND LASTLY HE SAYS HE WOULD NEVER STEP IN THE OCTAGON.
BOXING IS ONE, JUST ONE BUDDY, ASPECT OF FIGHTING. IT’S JUST SAD YOU DON’T GET IT.Posted by Craig O on May 17, 2007 at 12:27 PMOKAY SAM, IF YOU THINK BOXING IS IN A “GREAT” STATE,
OUR CONVERSATION IS OVAH!!! I DON’T TALK IGNORANT ASSES THAT PULL THEIR HEADS OUT OF THE DARKSIDE!! IF YOU BELIVE THAT, YOUR CORKY!!!Posted by Craig O on May 17, 2007 at 12:32 PMlmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOo lmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOolmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOolmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOolmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOolmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOolmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOolmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOolmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOolmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOolmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOolmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOolmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOolmaoooooo ooOOOoooooOooo “boxing is in a great state” lmaooooo ooOOOooOoooOo
Posted by Craig O on May 17, 2007 at 12:33 PMbtw u named some old ass boxers LOLOLOLOLOL. answer me this why is it boxing you never ever ever ever ever get a match up of two great champs, who both are in their prime???
why? why the hell, if the sport is sooooooooo great, why??
and yes a boxing glove feels like a tickle after you’ve been struck with mma gloves (the impact is twice as much, and you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.)Posted by Craig O on May 17, 2007 at 12:38 PMjust a side note, the gracie challenge, a bjj challenge, started in the 20’s brah.
Posted by Craig O on May 17, 2007 at 12:47 PMi’m gonna be the only idiot to respond to you cuz this is such an old post, (i guess it’s obvious that i have no LIFE AT ALL LOL>)
Posted by Craig O on May 17, 2007 at 01:05 PMFloyd has no power? Floyd knocks opponents out when he can, but going for a knockout when it could be dangerous,, and you can win by boxing.. is stupid. When Floyd was fighting at 130 lbs he was known for his power actually, in fact most of his opponents say that he hits a lot harder than they expected.
Comparing Floyd’s power to that of Muhammad Ali or Joe Frazier is ust ignorant though man. Floyd is a natural 130 pounder. Guys that weigh 130 lbs CAN’T hit as hard as guys that weigh 230 lbs. Hell, look at a guy like Arturo Gatti. Not the greatest fighter, but he’s known for being tough, for never giving up. Well Floyd beat him up worse than anyone else has ever beat him. Floyd probably actually hits harder than a lot of guys in the UFC (at the lower weight class , ‘lightweight’ as they call it), since Floyd is a power puncher. All of those left hooks and straight rights he throws he completely turns his body into them, really tees off on his punches.
And btw you are the one that brought up older fighters.
You need to grow up though man, nobody is insulting you. You should LEARN things though, instead of just dismissing everything I say as bullshit because you somehow think it is insulting to you.
If Floyd is such a pathetic little wimp, would YOU spar with him?? You don’t know much about boxing man, so don’t try to say you do.
You obviously haven’t ever taken a punch from a boxer, the issue with gloves is a FACT. Take a pair of 8 ounce punchers gloves like those made by Grant and those made by Reyes… they have no more padding around the knuckles than 4 ounce MMA gloves do. And yes boxing is one aspect of MMA, but if you don’t understand that boxing skills are severely lacking in the UFC, then you don’t know shit about mma PERIOD.
You haven’t actually responded to a single thing that I’ve said, you’re just yelling and flaming like a child. Try reading what I’m saying with an open mind, you will learn something.
Posted by Sam Taylor on May 17, 2007 at 01:26 PMdude your point that mma fighters are not good boxers, DUH!!!!!! THAT’S IS THE MOST OBVIOUS STATEMENT EVER. i never ever said they were good boxers.
Also, why be good at something that will get u killed? they take a shot from a boxer, take him down, eat his lunch, FIGHT OVER.
ANSWER ME ONCE IN AHWILE INSTEAD SAYING THE SAME TIRED OLD STUFF:
1ST: YOU ACTUALLY THINK THE STATE OF BOXING IS “GREAT”???
2ND: WHY IS THERE NEVER A FIGHT OF TWO GREAT FIGHERS IN THEIR PRIME?
Posted by Craig O on May 17, 2007 at 04:35 PMbtw, i would spare with him and i’m 5’9” 155. i would get knocked out, but would take alot longer than if i went against Sean Sherk (plus after fighting floyd i could run down to the liquer store and rob it: but after fighting sherk i’m going to the hospital.) 100% true. i could clinch and stall with floyd for about 1 to maybe 2 min’s cuz i have bucket for head (that has taken many shots ranging from a boot to a shovel… which don’t have padding). plus i’ve taken 2 years of boxing, so I KNOW WHAT THE PUNCHES FEEL LIKE AND HOW TO DEFEND MYSELF (plus being a centerfielder i am fast a fuck)
Posted by Craig O on May 17, 2007 at 04:40 PMokay i quit; i’ll agree with u to a point.
Both sports have their faults.
okay, i’ve un retired;I’ve watched boxing alot longer than mma, and i guess i’m spoiled by growing up to Sugar, Haglar, Hearns and then tyson era’s. i just hate judges is the bottom line i guess and the fact they can and ARE BOUGHT OFF all the time.
Posted by Craig O on May 17, 2007 at 04:45 PMthis kills me
““You need to grow up though man, nobody is insulting you. You should LEARN things though, instead of just dismissing everything I say as bullshit because you somehow think it is insulting to you.”” by Sam…. sam needs a mirror. dude you need listen to yourself and apply that to yourself.
Sam it has nothing to do with learning, it’s called OPINIONS. we can disagree and both be right. it’s highly IMMATURE for you say this, esp since you don’t know me and i don’t know you and YOUR DOING THE SAME DAMN THING.
SO I GUESS I’M SAYING;;;;;;;;;;
;;;;;;;;;;PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH…..
Posted by Craig O on May 17, 2007 at 05:01 PMYEs I think boxing is doing great. There are great fights EVERY week, several times a week. Just because there aren’t big heavyweight matchups doesn’t mean there arent great fights. Hell we just had De La Hoya - Mayweather, which wasnt an action fight.. BUT if you appreciate skilled boxers, it was a VIRTUOSO performance.
As for your second question,, there are PLENTY of great matchups with fighters in their prime (though in their prime doesnt always mean young, Winky Wright is in his prime, and he’s in his mid 30s. Bernard Hopkins was in his prime in his mid-late 30s). Let me just name a few from the last few years (all since 2000):
De La Hoya - Mosley and Mosley De La Hoya
Trinidad - Vargas
Vargas - De La Hoya
Taylor - Wright
Wright - Frazier
Taylor - Ouma
De La Hoya - Quartey
Corrales - Mayweather
Judah - Mayweather
Castillo - Mayweather and MAyweather - CAstillo
Barrera - Morales (all three of their fights)
All three Gatti - Ward fights
Somsak Sithchatchawal - Mahyar MonshipourAnd up and coming fighters don’t just take safe easy fights, look at recent fights like Allan Green v. Edison Miranda, or the upcoming Pavlik - Miranda.
HBO may show the big money fights, but Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday night fights on ESPN often show up and comers. Also many HBO undercards show fighters in their prime, battling it out for title shots. Great stuff.
Posted by Sam Taylor on May 17, 2007 at 05:27 PMokay good/great fights… if not some of the best in there. but i’ve found that what you and i like, boxing, is boring to the mass majority(whom watch car chases, cops and other bad t.v.) the people that pay the purses for the fighters are not watching as much.
i really thought that floyd-hoya wasn’t that great at all. in fact would not break my top 10 and prob hurt boxing more than helped.yet i still don’t belive boxing is in good shape(by on decline i dont mean there’s no good boxers, i mean people are watching it like they used too) because majority of the world doesn’t have the attention span to watch a point fight. Less big fights= less kids that get into boxing=decline of boxing…this happens too all sports, hell horse racing used to be the number 1 sport lol.
this is all in my opnion though, expect the horse racing quote.Posted by Craig O on May 17, 2007 at 06:47 PMbtw, want to thank you for mentioning those fights. i still have about 5 or more on vhs tape. also have about 4 sugar ray fights.
ty again for the fun debate… i was a bored sob today and now i’m watching some old boxing… cracking open my first beer in a month or day not sure..
so cheers to healthy debate!
Posted by Craig O on May 17, 2007 at 06:50 PMOk in response to all this that I am reading. I am a huge fight fan, Mainly boxing. I’ve been watching it since I was a kid. My father in law was a professional boxer. Floyd would not last 3 minutes with any top ranked mma or ufc fighter out there. Period! Sam Taylor, boxing isn’t as good as it once was. The match ups arent as enticing. for instance, nothing recently (other than Gatti Wards and Castillo Corrales God rest his soul) in the 80s we had hearns leonard hagler hearns arguello pryor sanchez nelson and I could go on forever. Oh by the way I like boxing more than mma BUT, being an ex wrestler all my life mma fighters are definately better athletes no questions asked!!! Jimm L>
Posted by Jim L on May 18, 2007 at 06:41 PMGatti-Ward…. fun fights, sure..but theres more to good boxing than just slugfests.
And I’m not debating that Floyd would lose in a MMA match, I haven’t said otherwise! I’m saying that if you want to prove who is better, you can’t just have them fight in MMA, you should also have some top boxers v. some top MMA fighters in BOXING - after all Dana White says they can do it all!
Posted by Sam Taylor on May 18, 2007 at 07:40 PMDana is right, then have to do it all;
now their boxing skills can’t be as complete as somebody who only boxes their whole life, nor does it have to be. somebody who trains in judo, bjj, wrestling, kick boxing, ground and pound and stand up can’t be as good as somebody who only does one of these aspects.now does this prove anything? only that boxers are great at boxing; or at least you would think so but i watched the last fight of the contender and there’s was a guy who only used his right hand and i think he won, fell asleep it was sooo boring…lol. but that’s not here nor there.
Posted by Craig O on May 18, 2007 at 09:10 PMSam T, Not arguing or even disagreeing with you buddy. If you take the top ten in each wt class boxing and mma if they box 90-95% of boxers would win (5-10% that lose, lose by knockout after being ahead on pts) if they go to the mat 100% of the mma crew wins, hands down, I feel you though, you’re defending the sport we love (boxing) but boxing needs better match ups the dela hoya mayweather fight as far as i’m concerned was a good fight but didnt live up to the hype boxing needs a major rebound, you are definately right in saying that the part time boxing fans want to see heavy wts while the lighter wts are definately stacked but they need better match ups best upcoming fights to see castillo hatton and maybe cotto judah other than that tomorrow night taylors gonna dismember spinks the other fights like holyfield savarese are bad for our sport! But Sammie T most definately mma athletes are overall better athletes but i do feel the primos in boxing are in better condition for their sport! Hit me back!
Posted by Jim L on May 18, 2007 at 10:12 PMYeah I agree with you Jim L. I’m not trying to say anything like MMA < Boxing or shit like that. I’m really just talking to Craig O, he seems ignorant to the BOXING aspects of MMA, and to whats going on in boxing right now - so I’m just trying to let him know!
One thing though, I think MMA atheletes WILL be better atheletes than boxers, but you also have to consider MMA is in its INFANCY! I think in a few years, MMA wil lbe leaps and bounds ahead of boxing, but right now boxers are still far more skilled and talented than the best MMA fighters.
And Craig in response to that Conteder fight, the guy was using his left… and heres the thing: Those guys are NOT the best boxers out there. The guys in that tournament, are not even RANKED. They’re MEDIOCRE fighters at the best. The Contender is a popular series, but those guys are not even legitimate contenders, they would get SLAUGHTERS by their champion (Jermain Taylor, or Joe Calzaghe, or Floyd Mayweather).
When I mention that MMA fighters have relatively poor boxing skills, its not to bash MMA. I love MMA, but I mention it in HOPE that in years to come, MMA fighters will one day have GREAT boxing skills just like the best boxers!! When kickboxing hit the western world, it never happened. The best K-1 fighters for example, still don’t really have really great boxing skills (well or thai boxing skills ,but thats a different conversation!), but I believe that if the MMA world can get beyond the political bullshit SOON, and fight cards can be put together not just within one promotion like UFC and PRIDE, but based upon who should FIGHT each OTHER, then I think MMA will in a few years just be the best thing out there. Not just in terms of what sport has the best fights, but in terms of who are the best FIGHTERS. And which sport ATTRACTS the best fighters!!!
PEACE guys!!
Posted by Sam Taylor on May 18, 2007 at 10:22 PMyou know guys when we sit here loving and defending our favorite sports, which is great! The best thing about both boxing and mma is a guy can be a 20-1 underdog and have a punchers chance. thats the great thing about fights. I’ll say this much about the best in both sports mma matt hughes frank trigg and guys like this who are SKILLED when u take mayweather as mouthy as he is or a jones jr in his prime their as skilled in boxing as any mma guy is in their sport hey by the way we should be enjoying each others sports guys and supporting them this will bring both sides of the fight game to its highest level!!! Jim Later Craig o & Sam T
Talk 2u guys soon!Posted by Jim L on May 19, 2007 at 11:32 AMthe fact you think i’m ignorant in the “boxing aspect” of mma, reflects poorly on you. sorry you don’t know shit and you regurgitate your same old lines is the CLEAR DEFINITON OF IGNORANCE AND INSANITY.
Doing the samething and expectin different results is pure insanity.
Posted by Craig O on May 19, 2007 at 02:16 PMSammy, you come on here asking us why we are bashing FLoyd “dances with the stars”? let me say DUH, he started this with his ignorant statements; sorry if that fact is LOST ON YOU.
Thirdly i said i was joking (clearly stated about the boxing gloves tickling) and you acted like i was serious (LMAO @U).. so i kept ff’n with you and it worked (again LMAO @ U).
NOw GO post on a boxing site were you OLD GUYS CAN PRETEND THAT THE SPORT IS IN GOOD SHAPE, LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO.
Posted by Craig O on May 19, 2007 at 02:25 PMprops to Jim, talk to you soon after the Chuck v Rampage!!
OH and SAMMY the Euro was a left, the AMERICAN WHO’M I TALKED OF WAS RIGHT HANDED. (i’m right again, wow.)
Posted by Craig O on May 19, 2007 at 02:27 PMI’ve explained my accusations Craig O, you have not. More evidence is that it makes you so upset. Ignorance is not the same thing as stupidity, unless the ignorant person chooses to deny that he is ignorant.
Just tell me how it is I’m ignorant. I don’t talk about things that I’m not educated and experienced in.
And earlier you tried to tell me thesethingsare OPIIONS? Well yes, you CAN have a different opinion than someone else, thinking that say , Oscar de la Hoya beat Floyd Mayweather. But if your view on the subject can easily be viewed wrong, is it wrong for ME to call you wrong? Even though it IS anoapinion.
Craig O you’re the only one getting upset , calling people names, and in short: Acting likea ild. Jim L (probably Jim Lampley, I’m sure he reads this site ;P) and I are being civil - why can’t you? You’re acting like you’re about nine years old - are you sure its really appropriate to be using that kind of language when speaking with adults? Just a thought…
And if you are so sure boxing, the SPORT, is in “bad shape”: Tell me why. What evidence do you have of this? I see GOOD boing on TV live three nights a week, with replaysof GREAT fights from the last 60+ years on TV EVERY night. Theres still a good number of people at the local gyms in amateur programs, and for BOXING fans theres still a lot of great matchups out there.
The biggest problem in boxing right now is the boxing MEDIA. They are the ones that constantly say boxing is on the decline, becaus it creates drama. “Will this be the fighter to SAVE boxing?”, “Will this fight SAVE boxing?”. Its obvious in the way they treat Floyd for example. Before his fights, HBO always says one thing. Like the Baldomir fight for example. Anyone who knew boing knows that Baldomir was going to be an incredibly easy opponent for Floyd. But HBO goes as far as having Bert Sugar (who is on their payroll) to say that this is Floyd’s toughest opponent, that if anyone can beat Floyd - it would be Carlos. But of course after the fight, Larry Merchant says “Floyd why did you take this fight? It was obivous that this guy was no match for you and it would be a boring fight, why don’t you fight a real opponent?”. And the same thing is said about every opponent he fights. Every new guy he fights is his ‘toughest opponent’, and after he beats them, they become crap in HBO’s eyes. Even Oscar, before the fight HBO hyped Oscar’s chances so much that the ODDS in Vegas changed. But after the fight, its all “Well despite how many fans thought Oscar DID in fact win the fight, it was clear from the beginning that he was just too old to compete with the speed strength and skill of Floyd Mayweather blah blah blah.”
Its the bullshit politics like that that are the problems with boing.
MMA has it too.. there are only too major MMA prmotions now, UFC and PRIDE. UFC and PRIDE fighters should be fighting each other ALL the time. The top 4 fighters in each weight class from each promotion need to have a tournament (like the Middleweight boxing unification tournament that left Bernard Hopkins as the undisputed champ in recent boxing history) to decide who the best really is.
Also I think MMA needs more weight classes, more, but also lighter weight classes. Why is welterweight like 175 lbs? Thats ridiculous. The weight classes used in boxing, thai boxing, full contact karate, etc etc - are just fine,, why not use them?
Lightweight being 155 lbs means that smaller fighters can’t really compete at their natural weight. In fact very few fighters can compete at their NATURAL weight. So many fighters have to lift weights to gain the extra weight. Doing this slows them down, creates more fatigue, etc etc. If MMA fighters didn’t have to do this, they could easily be fighting for FIVE or even EIGHT 5 minute rounds instead of just 3.
Posted by Sam Taylor on May 19, 2007 at 02:55 PMsoo sorry to offend, didn’t know people got offended on message boards; assumed we were all men here. my bad. if you think i’m mad, your really are nutz. I talk/type with a bit of street in me and u think i’m mad… that’s soft.
If you think mma has the same promotion prob’s as boxing, WOW. Boxing is on the decline, one fight doesn’t change this fact,....this is NOT MY OPINION, sorry maybe the caps hurts yours eyes too.
also, haha you were sooo wrong about the southpaw, lmao… mr.expert
Posted by Craig O on May 19, 2007 at 03:11 PMif you read Sammy you would now that the world of mma is expanding ... that means getting bigger. They promote their best fighters and make them fight, not dodge opponents.
2nd; if you read you’d know they are planning a superbowl type tourny…. but that’s old news.
and if you really think boxing is doing as good as in it’s hay days, you need a 12 step program.Posted by Craig O on May 19, 2007 at 03:21 PMI myself, guys, need to know more about mma and want to see it ohbo or showtime (which I know showtime has televised at times). I think the problem that needs to be addressed is that mma needs to be marketed a little better (well, maybe alot better) and I think more boxing fans would watch and get to appreciate the sport even more. Because lets face, fight fans wanna see people get knocked out!! This all started over Mayweathers big mouth! Lets all first get more educated with each others sport (me mainly) this way we can continue this great debate with less ignorance and more knowledge! I would love to see Floyd get in the ring with Sean and after that they fight again in the octagon! I think that would be best! I’m no way a Mayweather fan at all, but he could be (arguably) the best pound for pound boxer ever. Guys we are very fight knowledgable theres is no arguing that. Lets give all credit where credit is do, no matter mma or boxing even if we don’t like one as much as the other, the fact is the top dogs need their props!
Talk to u guys soon! Jim LPosted by Jim L on May 19, 2007 at 03:43 PMUFC - boxing is a real sport, as apposed to the wanna-be hardasses like chuck lidell, being used for pawns to sell Tapout and Xyience products. Boxing is respected as a true sport around the world. I sure don’t UFC bringing in the people and the dough like boxing does. Good luck seeing MMA in the olympics! Why waste time watching two pseudo-athletes roll around with each other behind a fence?
Posted by ty on May 19, 2007 at 04:03 PMWell how about this, mma gets better marketing and this, check this, if mma, when the guys are down in their mounts, the ref should give them maybe 30 seconds to get an advantage. If they dont back on your feet. Because lets face it, alot of times they’re on the mat too long with no action, which I think might be a bit boring to the part time fight fan. Can I get some love on that????? Gimmee an amen TY
Jim LPosted by Jim L on May 19, 2007 at 08:04 PMHey TY, syncronized swimming is in the olypimpics,,,,,,
,,,,
,,,have fun watching that!! lmao at “good luck seeing mma in the olympics”
dude the olypmpics are sooo played out..
NEXT>!!!!Posted by Craig O on May 19, 2007 at 11:15 PM... NOW THE REAL IGNORANCE STARTS, pseudo athlete?? wow put in the mouth piece and your helmet b4 u board the shorty bus. lol
if you ever wrestled you would not say something so pathatic.
Posted by Craig O on May 19, 2007 at 11:17 PMJim i don’t like the fact that they would stand them up, i know the people want knock outs…but ground wars are my fav (i’m biased though). i love watching someone’s limb bend the wrong way, i’m sick like that!!
but i c your point for sure and they are prob looking into that already.
Posted by Craig O on May 19, 2007 at 11:20 PMJim i appriciate your attitude, it’s point on… learning is the best way… u just need to look at ufc as mma not boxing and you’ll be fine..mma can never replace boxing, ever…..
i guess i’ll get tired of ufc when it becomes corrupt and has a don king of it’s own, lol.
well, i guess this is the part i say “sorry” for being a donkey/punk earlier (didn’t mean to offend, was just have semi’drunk fun…...so to Jim i say, sorry… and anybody who had to read my crappy posts, i’ll step it up ... well actually i think i did in repsone to TY LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL> ... hehe ..cough… I LOVE SPORTS, PERIOD.
Posted by Craig O on May 19, 2007 at 11:37 PMMy man CO no need for apologies, I never was offended, not at all. Like I said earlier, being an ex wrestler (as well as coaching for 18yrs and officiating for 12) I like down fighting as well, I just meant if the ref dont see one guy getting that advantage bring em up, and u would know more so than me but I have seen it where it was a bit too slow on the mat thats all I enjoy the tapouts as well as the knockouts myself when they’re done cleverly. I love all sports as well but there’s NOTHING better than a great fight!!! mma or boxing
Jim LPosted by Jim L on May 20, 2007 at 02:14 PMA boxer with the skill of Floyd is trained to slip punches and deliver straight and highly accurate punches that land with extreme force. Boxers use their hips and toes to deliver maximum punishment. (Imagine with 4 ounce gloves) I’d be afraid Mayweather would do permanent damage to an MMA fighter with the smaller gloves. I believe an MMA fighter such as Sherk would have little chance to get a slick boxer to the ground before getting pummled. I love MMA but they dont have they skill or punching power to beat a pro. boxer….sorry
Posted by B G on May 30, 2007 at 08:24 AMIm going to have to side with SAm on this issue for the most part.
Most fights are like chess a match. If you don’t know that you either never been in a fight or you never played chess.Anyhow, a hit from a boxer regardless of his wieght is going to hurt you. Why? because they know how to throw a proper punch. Like Sam I am fan MMA, but look at how these guys throw punches. Its horrible. You do have some guys that knock people out but for the most part it because these guys are just naturally strong. Imagine if the honed their punching skills. THey would be sick.
But as for as who is a better athlete, i would have to say the boxer simply because of the argument that Sam put out that boxers have to go through more of a filter process than MMA. What is the MMA’s filter process? Yeah its a reality show to make it into their leauge??Now if you have 50mma guys box 50 boxers. I would think you would be lucky to have 5 of them win. However, I do feel that the same would happen if we flipped the tables. Once the boxer is put to the ground he is useless.
POints are that boxers are better athletes because at this point they go through a harder process to become pro.
Boxer throw a better punch, and they have better a stand up defencelastly, a boxer will kill an MMa guy in the ring and most likely and MMA guy will kill a boxer in the octagon
Posted by Ike on Jun 05, 2007 at 03:35 AMpersonally i fink dat a boxer wud beat a mma fighter in a boxin ring and a mma fighter wud beat a boxer in an mma fyt. Simply bcas boxers dnt grapple on the ground but hav the hardest punches in any martial art; and this is proven.
And becasue mma fighters dnt box aswell as boxers but hav more ability to stike wiv parts of the bdy other than arms.
Two different sports cnt be judged to say one is better than the other bcas that is ludacris. Its like saying tennis is better than badminton.To round dis up u never know wt happens until it actaully happens sayin 1 is better than the other shows ignorance and lack of knowledge in martial arts.
Posted by robert on Jun 09, 2007 at 04:26 PMWell robert, you have the worst spelling I have ever seen in my life, but what you say is absolutely true.
Adn guys please know that I love MMA, but I just thin the sport has a long way to go.
Imagie how great it will be when the MMA fighters really ARE elite in all aspects of their fighting. Having the supreme technical boxing skills of Bernard Hopkins, the offensive prowess of Ernesto Hoost that broke down enemies slowly but SURELY round after round, the excitement and willingness to fight of Ramon Dekkers, the jiu jitsu expertise of Relio Gracie, and much much more.
It will take many years, but it will happen!! And when it does it will be COOL as hell! Some people say that MMA fghters will never have the boxing skills of the best boxer, or the Thai boxing skills of the best Thai boxers, or the jiu jitsu expertise of the best wrestlers… but I say its just a matter of time.
Posted by Sam Taylor on Jun 09, 2007 at 06:57 PMsam although what your saying is part true but an mma fighter could never have the same ability as the best boxer or the skill of the best thai boxer, simpliy bcas they are training in different martial arts and not putting all their time into one martial art.
Even in time mma wouldnt be able to accomplish this because as mma is grows and adapts through time so will boxing and other martial arts.Posted by robert on Jun 09, 2007 at 07:40 PMBANG BANG BANG get shot down on da ROADSIDE
Posted by Criminoso on Jun 09, 2007 at 07:40 PM2 be honest i belivev da best fighting style is iron penis. simply because you can fuk for an hour and still have stamina to shag am taylors mum
Posted by Criminoso187 on Jun 09, 2007 at 07:46 PMReppin south east london, hld tite all ma guyanese and coolies and hld tyt Sam taylors mum who is the best at blowjobs and sucking hairy brown ballz x x x sam, i left da money for ur mum on da fridge mate blessss
Posted by Criminoso rm6 on Jun 09, 2007 at 07:50 PMindeed, the iron penis technique hits the spot(and by that i mean G spot) Hit me back agen crim.
Posted by sam taylors mum on Jun 09, 2007 at 07:50 PM
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